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 Post subject: Re: Movement modifiers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:48 pm 
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Posts: 58
Jarek@Prodos wrote:
Please bear in mind, each action in the game is conducted individually, after each action you must check for several conditions to complete another action.


Ok.

1. What is my movement allowance left: 10" - so I make move action 5"

2.What is my movement allowance left: 5" - I Power Blink 12" as it allows me to override MV x 2 limit

As you must decide if the special rule allows to override the rule or not. I understand, that you wanted that it cannot be used with other kind of movement, but that should be mentioned in its description, as the rules allow it to be used this way I showed above.

Jarek@Prodos wrote:

Grzechu, it's not 1st or last gaming system which might have rule disputes, but Errata and FAQ in most of the cases is fixing them, even for Big Boys, as long as we give clarification to the rules dispute and provide necessary errata then I am 100% convinced that we are on the good path.


Yes, I know as I am quite a veteran since started with 1st editions of Chronopia and 2nd Warzone, with Infinity, WHFB, 40k, Confrontation and Warmachine (but just a bit with the last one). And really - WZR rules are worst written of them all. I do not say that they are bad, but just badly written. There is too many conflicts and misunderstands within it and your FAQ brings more problems. If you analyze it and issue quick fixing it will be great system to play. But the rules are more important than models, as if rules are good they let you wait with anticipation for models to be released.


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 Post subject: Re: Movement modifiers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:47 pm
Posts: 69
Grzech76 wrote:
Jarek@Prodos wrote:
Please bear in mind, each action in the game is conducted individually, after each action you must check for several conditions to complete another action.


Ok.

1. What is my movement allowance left: 10" - so I make move action 5"

2.What is my movement allowance left: 5" - I Power Blink 12" as it allows me to override MV x 2 limit

As you must decide if the special rule allows to override the rule or not. I understand, that you wanted that it cannot be used with other kind of movement, but that should be mentioned in its description, as the rules allow it to be used this way I showed above.

Jarek@Prodos wrote:

Grzechu, it's not 1st or last gaming system which might have rule disputes, but Errata and FAQ in most of the cases is fixing them, even for Big Boys, as long as we give clarification to the rules dispute and provide necessary errata then I am 100% convinced that we are on the good path.


Yes, I know as I am quite a veteran since started with 1st editions of Chronopia and 2nd Warzone, with Infinity, WHFB, 40k, Confrontation and Warmachine (but just a bit with the last one). And really - WZR rules are worst written of them all. I do not say that they are bad, but just badly written. There is too many conflicts and misunderstands within it and your FAQ brings more problems. If you analyze it and issue quick fixing it will be great system to play. But the rules are more important than models, as if rules are good they let you wait with anticipation for models to be released.



Very interesting Grzesiek and thank for feedback about the rules, in fact we have very mixed opinions, in most of the cases that the rules are robust enough, but , hey, I would appreciate to provide more evidence from you to back up your statement (on PM please as I'd like to keep this topic on topic), at least it will give us enough materials to work on FAQs/ rules clarification.

Going back to the topic, please read the Power Blink and Blink rules once again, there is a statement that they are "counts and" a type of movement, and yes as it stands at the moment the Power Blink can be made to 12" if initiated before any other travel (As exception to the main rule of MVX12 of POTENTIAL cost of loosing your model). I'm right to assume that changing it to 5" for blink and 10" for power blink would fix the problem .... after all moving your model 12" and risking of loosing it it was not balanced enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Movement modifiers
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:06 pm
Posts: 13
Ok I get it but if I move with my first action 5 inches with my armored chasseur and then t2b one card for an additional action to power blink, how far can I power blink:

A) 12 inches (as per description of ability)

B) 5 inches (MV x 2 - 5)

C) other, please explain

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Movement modifiers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:56 am
Posts: 38
Location: Germany, Göttingen
You can't Power Blink after performing a move action because it counts as a run action.


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 Post subject: Re: Movement modifiers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:06 pm
Posts: 13
Why not?

Could you please quote the passage in the rulebook forbidding to combine run and move action?
I cannot find it atm. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Movement modifiers
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:38 pm
Posts: 288
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
What you can't do is two of the same action, example Blink + Move as both counts as 1 AP move actions.

There is no restriction though that you can't perform two different actions that results in movement, so "move + engage" or "move + run" is valid to perform. Most often you simply can't travel further though as you reach your MVx2 value but if you for example run through heavy terrain a "move + run" might still be valid to perform as you could not travel your full MVx2 value with the first action. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Movement modifiers
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:56 am
Posts: 38
Location: Germany, Göttingen
Rules p.10
Quote:
General Action Rules
...
No Action can be Activated more than once per Model per Game Turn (unless stated otherwise).


You can't "move+run" because "run" is a move action.


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 Post subject: Re: Movement modifiers
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:44 pm
Posts: 90
Move and Run are different actions that involve movement (just like engage or charge) so you can do both of these. Your still bound by the MVx2 max and it would cost 3 actions.


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 Post subject: Re: Movement modifiers
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:33 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Bristol, UK
Kurt_R wrote:
Move and Run are different actions that involve movement (just like engage or charge) so you can do both of these. Your still bound by the MVx2 max and it would cost 3 actions.


Yeah that's my understanding as well. You are absolutely free to Move + Run or Move + Engage if you like.. as long as you have the AP. However the cap still applies. So if your modified MV is currently 6, you can Move 6 inches, but for your Run action, you can only move up to another 6 inches of movement (that includes taking advantage of any Movement modifiers). You can't utilize the full MVx2 bonus you would normally get from a Run.

Really it's all about tactical positioning rather than going as fast as possible and a more useful example of that would be a Move + Engage action. It's Photoshop time!


Here we have our regular Etoiles Mortant, Regina. According to her profile, her normal, unmodified MV is 5. She is armed with the classic Punisher combo. Around the corner is an Undead Legionnaire. He's a total jerk and in his past life, he even owed Regina some money. Since we all know that no matter what kind of monster you are, you always drop gold when you die, Regina would like to kick his rotting ass and doesn't really care how she does it. So what are her options?

Image

Luckily for the Undead Legionnaire, it is going to take more than 5 inches of movement to get line of sight. This means that even if Regina spends 1 AP to move, she isn't going to be able to gain LoS to take a shot at him. No LoS at the end of the move also means she can not make an Engage action against the poor Undead Legionnaire. She could instead have spent 2 AP to Run, allowing her to move up to 10". Assuming Regina's player had no resources left, she could either run right into base to base contact with him and just stand there, or she could run across his line of fire and go find somebody else to fight. The Legionnaire would certainly prefer the latter.

If Regina's player had a card which granted a bonus to +1 M, this would have been a great time to use it. She could have moved her regular 5 inches, opted to add the M bonus to this action, and that would have moved her 6 inches - just enough to get her around the corner. From here, she could have taken a shot with her 2nd AP or.. as long as the Undead Legionnaire was no more than 4 inches away, she could have initiated an Engage action. Her total movement still can't exceed 10 inches but that extra +1 M is really useful when you only plan to spend 1 AP moving in some way and need the other AP for something else.

Image

Unfortunately for the Undead Legionnaire, Etoiles Mortants have an active ability which - for the cost of 1 resource - grants the entire squad the Predator Sense ability. This means she can can take an Engage action for 1 AP, move up to 10 inches and chose to ignore the requirements for Line of Sight and / or moving in a straight line. The downside is, if you use either of those benefits, you no longer gain an Engage bonus so if she spent her second AP to make a Close Combat attack, there would be no Engage bonus. Booo! Alternatively, if there was 1 resource going spare, Regina could Run (2 AP) up to 10 inches, right up to the Undead Legionnaire, then burn a resource to gain a third AP which could also be used to make a Close Combat attack. If the rest of Regina's squad hadn't gotten themselves killed, the first option would have been better.. but since it's just her, they are effectively the same.

Image

..but what if Regina's squad had been given the awesome Schnell! Schnell! Schnell! ability? This would mean that her modified MV was 6. In that case, she could move up to 12 inches during her activation instead of the regular 10. So what are her options? Again, she could perform a Move action to get LoS on the Undead Legionnaire and take a shot at him with a Ranged attack for 1 AP. Or, after that Move, she could take an Engage action although she is too close to gain the Engage bonus (she has to move at least 5 inches as part of the Engage action in order to get that). Or she could blaze right past him. Maybe there's an important button behind him that she really wants to press? If the Legionnaire is 10 inches away by the shortest route that means she can move up to 2 inches past him as long as she is careful not to enter his CCWR. Or if there is a juicy target behind that Legionnaire she could burn 1 resource to get Predator Senses to take an Engage action (1 AP) and then a Close Combat attack action (1 AP) as long as this hypothetical target was no more than 12 inches away. Moving that extra distance would allow her to get the Engage bonus against that hypothetical target, too.

Image

But what if Regina really, really wanted that Undead Legionnaire to die (again)? She could Move 6 inches (1 AP) and take that corner wide instead.. ensuring that at the end of the Move, she was at least 5 (but no more than 6!) inches away from him. Now Regina can take an Engage action (1 AP) to get in his face and since she moved a distance at least as far as her unmodified M (e.g. 5, before Schnell! Schnell! Schnell! is applied) then she gets her Engage bonus. Now her player just needs to burn a resource to give her a 3rd AP so she can actually make an attack.

Image

..but hold on! It's the Undead Legionnaire's lucky day? The concrete in front of him is all broken up. It doesn't provide cover but that small patch counts as Light Terrain. That means you have to deduct 2 M when passing through it. Let's say that Regina's squad didn't have Schnell! Schnell! Schnell! Now she is in a pickle. The Legionnaire is still 10 inches away by the shortest route so her controlling player has the option of burning 1 resource to give her Predator Senses. She could spend 1 AP to make an Engage action but.. damn! That Light Terrain throws up a 2 inch penalty to her move. She is still allowed to move up to 10 inches during her activation but if she moves through that Light Terrain, instead of moving the full 10 inches that Engage allows her to move, she will only get to move 8 and the other 2 inches is eaten up by that Light Terrain. It also means the Engage action will fail since she didn't end that action in CCWR range of her enemy.

Image

If Regina's player had a card that granted +2 M he could have played it now and it would have counteracted the effects of the Terrain and allowed the Engage action to be completed.. but it would not have allowed her to move 12 inches during her activation as the restriction of (MVx2) still applies, e.g. 10 inches. So it's best to think of M bonuses (not MV bonuses!) like this:

    If you are planning to use all of you model's allowable movement (e.g. MVx2) in an activation, a bonus to M is a buffer to absorb any penalties you encounter along the way. It doesn't let you move further.. it just makes it easier for you to move your full, allowable movement.

    If you are not planning to use all of your model's allowable movement (e.g. MVx2) in an activation, a bonus to M is a tactical bonus. It allows you to extend the range of a single Move action. It's the difference between moving up to the corner, and moving past the corner, with a single AP.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Movement modifiers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:41 am 
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Posts: 128
Great explanation, it helped me realize that Rapid Deployment is much stronger that I thought. You lose only Move Action and about 5” of movement, but you can still engage for about 5” and TTB to attack so there is plenty of space for corrections.


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