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 Post subject: Re: Warzone 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:26 am
Posts: 54
- Rapid Deployment - as everyone else says

- Special unit rules. Everyone has one - usually four or five. This is ok for small games, but will quickly bog down larger ones. Streamline! Suggest each faction gets a 'special' skill set (The Trenchers skill, for example) but the specialists/characters have only a combination from a pre-published skill set to make archetypes (e.g. The sneaky cc - could apply to Etoiles Mortant and Wolfbane Commandos. The berserk/savage cc - Headhunters and Golden Lions etc). Make it simple to learn, hard to master! People should focus on strategy, not remembering all the rules. Don't do what GW did (which is why many people left, and were looking for a new game) by patching special rules on special rules. I can't emphasise this enough!

- leadership/Fear. Everyone is either so brave that they always pass, or else squads are so small that they're effectively neutralised long before being pinned etc is an issue (you tend not to care that much if the two survivors of a five man squad get pinned, or the single survivor gets broken). Suggest lowering EVERYONE'S leadership, and removing either pinning or broken ( perhaps certain squads are more disciplined than others, so pin instead of break? Or the MoF (Margin of Failure) dictates which happens?).

- Squad special actions. Really like the idea - the big vehicles and monsters aren't immune to the little guy! In practice, we just don't use them. Also the special cc options (grab, hold down etc) are never used. Either scrap them (a shame, as the idea is original) or make it more user friendly.

- Heroes of the Solar System pdf. It's now easy to make a warlord which is far superior to even a special character, for a fraction of the cost. Again, nice idea, and one i'd like to use, but needs dumbing down. Also, if you're going to do it, do one for Lords as well.

I hope I don't sound too negative - this really is a fun game, but tbh I'm pretty annoyed at the idea of having shelled out 30 quid for a hardback rulebook only to hear of an overhaul, especially so soon. I (amongst many other WZR fans, I'm sure) partially quit GW because of the constant new editions (the final straw was buying the most recent edition of 40k at the time-6 I think- with the New codex, only to have it replaced by the next edition a month later! Bad timing on my part, but still ...) I suggest that the new rules are also published free online (which to be fair you may already plan to do, as with Imperial), so people who have already spent money are only left with one expensive paperweight of the old rules.

Warzone itself is an old game. WZR was supposed to fix all of the problems that plagued the last edition. Playtest it more if you're unsure, but once you've published a rule set, stick to it, because if version 2.0 isn't 'it', then I suspect you'll start losing people the same way GW did.


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 Post subject: Re: Warzone 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:21 am
Posts: 6
For me having a QR sheet would be fantastic.

I also would like to see the unit cards have bigger, clearer text as it is very difficult for me to read easily.

Great game, please keep the flavour and character of the game. A few tidy ups are neede though and have been covered well in previous posts.


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 Post subject: Re: Warzone 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:05 pm
Posts: 4
Hi there,

Been new to WzR, I really like the flavour of it.
Great fluff, good minis, good mechanics, pleasant to play.

I do like the basic of it, how it work.
I do like how the game is play, regardless of the format (small skirmish to full scale battle).
I do appreciate the liberty in composing a force - no unit is overpowered, no unit is weak, everything is useful, lot of things are "customizable" to fit the player's will (big kuddos for Heroes of the Solar System, marvelous !).

In my opinion, I still find the game a little bit to complicated - don't get me wrong, I'm a power gamer for more than 10 years, and I do appreciate complex games.
Still, there is a lot to compute to properly play WzR, and I (as well as the other gamers from my group) tends to forget rules from time to time (no intention just... there is a lot and it's not always clear !).

I'm too new to give a propper feedback on "how it should be done differently", still I would appreciate :
- clearer vision on the rules - it's annoying to have to look through all the books to know how something is actually working
- faster way to play - the basics of the game are OK, but with such huge number of rules/interaction, it tends to slow down the game for reasons I fail to appreciate
- more squad focus - Close Combat, Shooting, well, in my opinion, also to fast the game, 1 model is Shooting/Striking in combat to a squad (unless there is a kind of "challenge" between heroes) - don't waste time in separating the shots/CC strikes. You shot, you hit, you check what is in range (Shooting/Close Combat), and roll for saves. Period
- HOTSS for the Lords - definetly like to go with customizable Lords !
- extended HOTSS - would like to have the option to field Warlord and Lord from almost every entry of the squads in the list (say Mishima with Shadow Walker or Ashigaru), as well as access to new skills and equipment

Will look forward to Warzone 2.0, good luck to the rules writers and Prodos !
Carry on chaps !

Cheers from France

Fred


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 Post subject: Re: Warzone 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:43 am
Posts: 107
Location: Italy
I love the game, but there are too many special rules for every unit. It is great but this tend to slow the game.

Moreover please fix some evident unbalanced situations! For examples....
Capitol Heavy Infantry with Sniper special ability is awful.
Brotherhood Dominion power is too strong.
Just a couple of example.


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 Post subject: Re: Warzone 2.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:04 pm
Posts: 6
With new units getting more and more complex rules I don't expect them to change.

What slows the game most?
1. Singular activations encouraging micromanagement. If squads had to act together, like move-shoot-move-fight-move (each step optional), things would run much smoother.
2. LOS/shooting/cover - each one is calculated in a different way. Make 1 standard.

Other things:
1. As is has been mentioned earlier - critical force basically turns 100pts models into 15pts models when it comes to survivability. Quality wins over quality which leads to more micromanagement.
2. Lords are still too expensive. Reduce their cost by 50%. At the moment they are taken for their special abilities and rarely can they be seen on the battlefield. Encourage players to fill both Lord slots. Turn "whether to take anyone" into "whom to take". They should be an intimiditing sight on the battlefield, not a burden.


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 Post subject: Re: Warzone 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:53 am
Posts: 269
Johanxp wrote:
I love the game, but there are too many special rules for every unit. It is great but this tend to slow the game.

Moreover please fix some evident unbalanced situations! For examples....
Capitol Heavy Infantry with Sniper special ability is awful.
Brotherhood Dominion power is too strong.
Just a couple of example.


What you call evident, isnt evident at all. First of all, please provide feedback: Why do you think they are unbalanced? In which situations are they unbalanced? What did you as a player do to prevent the opponent from using those op skills / Arts? Etc.

"Sniper" equals +2/+4 RS or +0, given if there is cover in between. How does this make them stronger than, say, Hatamoto or Nasca Razides?


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 Post subject: Re: Warzone 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:53 am
Posts: 269
qurcz wrote:
With new units getting more and more complex rules I don't expect them to change.

What slows the game most?
1. Singular activations encouraging micromanagement. If squads had to act together, like move-shoot-move-fight-move (each step optional), things would run much smoother.
2. LOS/shooting/cover - each one is calculated in a different way. Make 1 standard.

Other things:
1. As is has been mentioned earlier - critical force basically turns 100pts models into 15pts models when it comes to survivability. Quality wins over quality which leads to more micromanagement.
2. Lords are still too expensive. Reduce their cost by 50%. At the moment they are taken for their special abilities and rarely can they be seen on the battlefield. Encourage players to fill both Lord slots. Turn "whether to take anyone" into "whom to take". They should be an intimiditing sight on the battlefield, not a burden.


1. Singular activation is what makes this game unique. Take that away and you get a 40k clone. I think there might be optional rules some day that allow for squad activations.
2. I agree the current calculation for cover is unsatisfying

1a: CritForce is often not THAT useful as many models have immunity to that skill. But yeah. Currently, it is, in many cases, quantity > quality.
1b: We did much to make Lords more attractive. I think we generally succeeded. Some Lords are still not attractive though. 50% is too much, though. I´d rather give them some more interesting abilities (like turning Mitch Hunters "Special Forces Grenades" bonded card into a skill that says "Any squad he is attached to has those grenades" (or some weaker version of those OP grenades, at least)


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 Post subject: Re: Warzone 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:53 am
Posts: 269
Angel wrote:

- clearer vision on the rules - it's annoying to have to look through all the books to know how something is actually working
- faster way to play - the basics of the game are OK, but with such huge number of rules/interaction, it tends to slow down the game for reasons I fail to appreciate
- more squad focus - Close Combat, Shooting, well, in my opinion, also to fast the game, 1 model is Shooting/Striking in combat to a squad (unless there is a kind of "challenge" between heroes) - don't waste time in separating the shots/CC strikes. You shot, you hit, you check what is in range (Shooting/Close Combat), and roll for saves. Period
- HOTSS for the Lords - definetly like to go with customizable Lords !
- extended HOTSS - would like to have the option to field Warlord and Lord from almost every entry of the squads in the list (say Mishima with Shadow Walker or Ashigaru), as well as access to new skills and equipment

Will look forward to Warzone 2.0, good luck to the rules writers and Prodos !
Carry on chaps !

Cheers from France

Fred

Thanks for the feedback!

Rules WILL be much clearer!
Which rules do you think slow down the game most? To me, there is a good form of "slow down" (=choose which action you want to perform, singular action etc.) and a bad form (=calculate things).
HOTSS for Lords: yeah! More customization! I´m all in!
HOTSS Warlord choices: Need to be revisited. There is a reason some choices arent in there. Imagine a Mortificator Warlord. We had that once, for a small time: Dodge (50%) means 8 Wounds total and Void means you cant harm him period.
But still: Some current choices are MUCH more attractive than others. Armoured Chasseurs have Impenetrable Armour AND power blink. Both highly valuable. Regular chasseurs only have Ranger and that Mirage generator. Not that cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Warzone 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:43 am
Posts: 107
Location: Italy
Dunnagh wrote:
Johanxp wrote:
I love the game, but there are too many special rules for every unit. It is great but this tend to slow the game.

Moreover please fix some evident unbalanced situations! For examples....
Capitol Heavy Infantry with Sniper special ability is awful.
Brotherhood Dominion power is too strong.
Just a couple of example.


What you call evident, isnt evident at all. First of all, please provide feedback: Why do you think they are unbalanced? In which situations are they unbalanced? What did you as a player do to prevent the opponent from using those op skills / Arts? Etc.

"Sniper" equals +2/+4 RS or +0, given if there is cover in between. How does this make them stronger than, say, Hatamoto or Nasca Razides?


It is a REAL pleasure to see you care and have the time to answer in this forum, THANKS!

I had some match with my Mishima against Capitol army with lot of Heavy Infantry (as a troop choice) with sniper skill. They have Rof 2, Range 28(!) St 15 (!!) (become 17 when aiming) RS 13 (it becomes 15 with aim - having such a long range they usually don't need to move). Add "Stimulating pack... Sniper skill meakes them Killing machine. They cost a lot (125 pts) but as a troop they are simply devastating.

Hatamoto are at the moment almost unused by Mishima players: better Samurai Ronins as they move faster, they are cheaper and have RoA 2 (but strength 10.... :D ). Hatamoto are not bad but they need to reach enemies in CC and in this case they are not beasts and do not hit as hard as Heavy Infantry for sure.

And Nasca Razides..... YES! They are beasts too! Limited range but ROF 6 when they do not move with Ashnagaroth and St 15!!! :o :o :o Maybe they need to cost more!


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 Post subject: Re: Warzone 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:53 am
Posts: 269
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I think that not everything is balances perfectly. We made a great effort to do so in the last "patch" and succeeded in many places. It seems you encountered a situation that is not perfect, unfortunately. If we compare them to similar squads like Necromutants, they seem to come out a bit too strong.

I guess we´ll have to put that one on the watchlist and see if other players feel that way, too. Sometimes, a squad choice that seems to be "too good" is compensated by the rest of the army. But we´ll have to see.


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