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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:22 pm 
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Hello everybody!

Some of these things came up on our games and some others through coffee small talk. Personally I prefer to place these questions here than on Facebook, because forums are unparalleled in their usefulness as archives of errata and future reference:

1) When an Inguisitor becomes the squad commander of a squad of Brotherhood troopers, does the whole squad gain fearless? If not, how do they react to pinning, broken etc?

2) Does the inquisitor's "IN NOMINE CARDINALIS!" affect fearless squads?

3) The "get the gun" roll is for Special weapons (Main Rules 1.4 p.52). Does that mean Special Type weapons? If yes that means that some weapons like the Brotherhood AC-19 Volcano Assault Rifle - Scoped (A) and the Imperial Charger HMG (H) can't be saved. Is that true?

4) Do you roll WP to cast the Art power Fire Flower (Brotherhood p.5)?

5) In the Capitol Army LT. COL. MIKE SANDERS THE BLUE SHARK (Capitol p.12) it says: "...Sanders can dismount from the Blue Shark. From this point onwards, Sanders uses the Sanders the Banshee statline, equipment and Special Skills, but he remains the Warlord and his Wound (W) value is equal to the Rider SP value remaining at the moment when he dismounts." So If the Driver location had 4 SPs, he dismounts and has 4 Wounds? Is that correct? Personally I can't make sense of it. Wouldn't it make more sense for the Banshee to have 4 Wounds or the Blue Shark to have 3 SPs and change the cost accordingly? Otherwise it feels like cheating or something.

6) If model A rapid deploys near model B that is in sentry, can model B move in CCW range of its own or model A's CCW range and force it to have 0 actions, as stated in Main Rules 1.4 p.53? Sneaky I know.

7) If a model with Movement Value 5 makes a run action, and at 9 inches it reaches heavy terrain that modifies its Move with a -4, it stops at 9 inches right?

8) Precise Positioning (Bauhaus p.3) says: "Cost: 5 points per Model in Troop type Squads, 7 points per Model in Support type Squads. If the Squad already has the Rapid Deployment or Infiltrate Special Skills, the cost is reduced by 2 points per Model". Does that mean 3 points in Troop type Squads etc? I am asking because ISF specialisation Paras (Imperial p.36) has the same comment but at different cost.

9) There are numerous special attacks, skills etc that force enemy models to be moved. E.g. Ram (Main Rules p.64-65), The strategy card "Wolf Trap" (Wolfbane cards p.1), Oakenfist's "Roar of the Bear" (Imperial p.63), Gallagher's "Enraged Fury" (Imperial p.65), Necromower's "Necromow" (Imperial p.80). Who decides the facing of the moved models? This is clear only in the throw attack (the "thrower" decides). Shouldn't there be a general rule to cover these and future cases?


Thanks in advance!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:13 pm 
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1. Nothing in either the Heroes section or squads section indicates that a squad commander passes on any special skills to the squad.

2. There is nothing saying that the skill will affect Fearless squads, so no.

3. RAW, only (S) weapons can be subject to Get the Gun.

4. Fire Flower is a Psychic (S), so you use the rules in the Psychic Fight section of the rulebook. In this case, you don't need to roll WP as you wouldn't need to roll RS for a FT weapon.

5. Not cheating. Sanders the Banshee is normally a Lord. he costs 120 points. You've paid twice that for The Blue Shark, so you're not exactly getting more out of the deal if you lose the bike.

6. No. Models on sentry can only activate between other model's action points, so the enemy model would Rapid Deploy (unengaged), and you could then engage them, but as they were not deployed into engagement they aren't reduced to 0AP.

7. Essentially correct. You would move up to the heavy terrain but not enter it, and cease your movement at 9". If you were to enter it, you would have your movement reduced by 4, so you'd have to go back a few inches. Common sense should prevail here.

8. if you give PP to a Hussar squad, it will cost 5 points per model (troop type, they don't have RD naturally). If you give it to Etoiles Mortant who have already been upgraded with RD, you would pay 5 points per model (2 per model for Rapid Deployment and then 3 for PP). A squad of Juggernauts will cost an extra 7 points per model.

9. typically, whoever moves a model determines facing. Where models roll to avoid, the owning player chooses.


Hope that helps!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Thank you ADG_Wraith!

You really cleared things up.

1) So the squad of Brotherhood troopers rolls for pinning using the Inquisitor's LD, and there is a 10% chance that the troopers will become pinned, while the inquisitor still stands untroubled of the explosions around him, talking about surfing in true Kilgore fashion. I' d love to see that!

3) Charger! Nooooooo!!!!

4) I have a Valkyrie-spam friend who will be reaaaally happy (can't say the same for the rest of us).

5) Of all the possible scenarios this is the only one that makes sense.

6) Same as 4!

8) But the EM already have infiltrate. So they only need to pay for Precise Positioning and not for RD. Ergo 3 points.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:47 pm 
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Quote:
6. No. Models on sentry can only activate between other model's action points, so the enemy model would Rapid Deploy (unengaged), and you could then engage them, but as they were not deployed into engagement they aren't reduced to 0AP.


I disagree. The rule only says that you use sentry during the enemy's activation phase, there are no other limits to when you can use it (even the 1st example on page 32 shows sentry being used before an enemy model has used any action points). So sentry can be used after an enemy squad has rapid deployed, but before any enemy models have been activated.

Therefore, if a model rapid deployes and is then is engaged through sentry then it will activate with 0 action points (would start with 1 AP as all engaged models but has already used that 1 AP through rapid deployment). Mickey's tactic seems legal to me.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:54 am 
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Assur wrote:
I disagree. The rule only says that you use sentry during the enemy's activation phase, there are no other limits to when you can use it (even the 1st example on page 32 shows sentry being used before an enemy model has used any action points). So sentry can be used after an enemy squad has rapid deployed, but before any enemy models have been activated.


Double check that example on page 32. Only after player 2 (the acting player) activates a model, but before any actions are taken, is when the sentry action gets used.

In which case you would:
-Activate a model (generating 2 actions as you are not starting in CCW range)
-Sentry model then activates and moves into ccw range of the first model/other modesl in the squad.
-this could cause later activating squads to start with 1AP and thus go to 0AP


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:57 pm 
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Oh I know that the example doesn't perfectly illustrate my point - it only shows that you aren't restricted to using sentry only between enemy action points.

But still - it doesn't say anywhere that you can't use sentry before a model is activated. For me it seems absolutely legal to use sentry right after an enemy squad has been activated (rapid deployed) but before any enemy models are activated (there is nothing restricting it).


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:30 pm 
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@Lone Mishiman, the second example shows it being used between the actions.

Text at the bottom of P.31:
"Sentry Actions can be used between the Actions of enemy Models, but require the Model on Sentry to pass a LD test first. If the test is failed then the Model is no longer in Sentry."

Ref Rapid Deployment 0AP shenanigans:
"Models that arrive via Rapid Deployment use an action point to deploy and count as having moved the full distance of 1 basic move action in inches; this does not count as a basic move action. Any model that Rapid deploys Engaged has 0 Action Points, which can be increased to one by Turning to Burn one Resource Card."

So if you rapid deploy engaged (i.e. are placed engaged), 0AP for you. If you are rapid deployed without being engaged, 1AP. If you Rapid deploy your squad, and then a model reacts on Sentry and engages you, you start your activation engaged, so follow the rules on P.62:
"Activated Models that are already Engaged have only 1 Action Point to spend. This Action Point can only be spent on a Special or Basic Close Combat Action or a Move Action."


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:28 pm 
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ADG_Wraith wrote:
Text at the bottom of P.31:
"Sentry Actions can be used between the Actions of enemy Models, but require the Model on Sentry to pass a LD test first. If the test is failed then the Model is no longer in Sentry."


I have no issue with that.

What I am saying is that the first example gives the impression that the first model must be activated, then before it takes any actions you can use sentry, but that will still be after it has activated Unengaged.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:50 pm 
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To a case of sentry.
Quote:
Sentry Action –A Model may enter Sentry.
Models in Sentry can use 1 Action Point (which
cannot be increased by any means) during
the enemy’s Activation Phase. The following
Basic Actions may be made during a Sentry
Action: Shooting, Close Combat, Move or Dive
for Cover.No more than 2 Models for every 5
Models in a Squad can be placed into Sentry.
If the Squad contains less than 5 Models, up
to 2 Models can be placed in Sentry. Models
using a Sentry Action remain on Sentry until
the next Control Phase.
Sentry Actions can be used between the Actions
of enemy Models, but require the Model
on Sentry to pass a LD test first. If the test is
failed then the Model is no longer in Sentry.

When troops deploy by RD their activation start when you nominate them to deploy. Then if u deploy them, model in sentry can do instant sentry actions. You need to do ld test when for example squad is deployed first dude get extra ap make first action befor secound of the dude u can make ld test for sentry and if u pass u can make actions listed in sentry action. Sentry between models activations dont need ld test , between models actions u need to pass ld test to make sentry.
In case basic movment from sentry to 0 action from deploy rd in engage. then u move to him on ccwr range in sentry it still have one action point cose it says when u deploy in to engage not be engaged after deploy


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Wilku wrote:
In case basic movment from sentry to 0 action from deploy rd in engage. then u move to him on ccwr range in sentry it still have one action point cose it says when u deploy in to engage not be engaged after deploy


true, but rapid deploy says that you spend 1AP to rapid deploy, if they then sentry action into CCWR (before you have activated a model) then you start with 1 AP, which you spent to deploy thus 0.


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