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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:23 pm 
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Dunnagh wrote:
The card costs 1 (tactical) :-D

Apart from that there are some really bad cards out there. And as you are most likely only drawing 9-10 of your 35 cards, chances are you are not drawing into the right ones. But if you do... well...


And that makes the game to random. Tactical cards are up to 5 of each. In a deck of 35, that's every 7th card. Dark Legion has access to flamers being able to be deployed by Rapid Strike/Infiltrate. These flamers are insane versus Vehicles, but weak versus infantry. Turning them into godmode weapons good against anything except a multiwound monster (and they are probably quite good versus those too, as they have RoF2) at the cost of 1 resource is mental. I -might- have understood it if they were affecting the Armoured Value of vehicles, rather than squads. As the flamer is already brutal against those (best AVV weapon in the game I believe?), but against troops...

My take on this is quite simple, as we're getting a bit off topic. Rapid Deployment is somewhat fine, although powerful, and something that you need to really consider your opponent having when deploying your troops.

The card/resource system used in advanced games is, as far as I can see, not fine, my points being;

* Unbalanced cards. Look at what one resource gives you when it is an inherent abiltity. It allows you to increase RoF by 1, extra action, or any of the numerous built in abilities that the units have. Versus using one resource to obliterate a unit, under circumstances that you can easily manipulate yourself into being in.
* Too many resources are tied up in the Warlord.
* Resource generation between Basic/Advanced game is inconsistent (CC Warlord versus Tech Warlord).

None of these gripes exist in the Basic Game.

EDIT: Figured I'd add a few points here, so it's a bit more constructive.
* Many of the cards are fine, and do reasonable things for the cost they have.
* Gear cards should only be able to be played on your own troops. I think it's very odd that the other player can suddenly decide that my unit has another type of weapon than what they had at the start. If he accomplishes this with a Tactical Card, it feels a lot better to be on the receiving end (things like running out of a certain type of ammunition, armor degrading, weapons locking up etc). Having my opponent play gear cards on my troops feels a bit "invasive", if you know what I mean? Perhaps this is me reading the rules badly though, as the "owner" can always choose to discard a gear card, so if "owner" in this case refers to the player controlling the squad, this is a non-issue for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:49 am 
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Yeah, that particular card does sound quite nasty from what we've been told. Assuming that is the exact wording, I think it needs a fix. Not sure what it is trying to go for either since the mechanics on it seem a bit wonky. The community really needs to get around to cataloging all of these cards so we can all spot stuff like this in the card pool. The system just wasn't meant to operate on the backs of things that granted a 0 to a unit's armour. With the dice system being what it is, that is a death sentence.

As for Rapid Deployment itself? So far, it feels a lot like Airborne Deployment in Infinity. It can be a real game-changer when the opponent isn't expecting it, but deploying and moving with it in mind can really obviate its uses. Now, Alakhai getting hit right off the bat is quite unfortunate and may be a sign that not allowing units to start in contact with the enemy may be a good idea for a tweak. The main spot it feels too nasty to me is that it opens up an easy assassination run on Warlords which is bad in Advanced Games where they seem to be as important as a Warcaster in terms of force resources.

My main thoughts here:

- If that card is dumping armour down to 0, then it should either get errata'd or removed from the game (preferably the former, though massive errata to cards can be kind of jarring).
- Rapid Deployment is largely fine but should probably have some kind of penalty for being too close to the enemy so as to avoid easy assassination runs (perhaps taking a penalty to the test if you try to deploy within the command radius of an enemy unit?).
- Reliance on the Warlord may be too high in advanced games with the larger resource values afforded them.

In the case of the last one there are a few options to consider:

1) Troops squad leaders generate an additional resource instead. This keeps troops important in larger games and takes some heat off the Warlord.
2) All squad leaders generate a resource, not just troops. Now all squad leaders are important in the command chain. This has the consequence, however, of making multiple small unit (MSU) the standard in advanced games. It will also favour trooper squads less, which could be bad in the eyes of some.
3) When playing an advanced game itself, you are given 3-4 resources base and all other values stay the same.

I like the latter the most. It gives you a base economy regardless of what is on the field, it means the Warlord is no longer the lynchpin of your economy and it is a really easy fix to slot in that doesn't interfere elsewhere.

As a final aside. What would folks think about increasing the radius of the entry zone on Rapid Deployment? Perhaps using the blast template as the minimum footprint instead of the base of the squad leader? That would certainly limit options a bit more (especially alongside the proximity limitation) and allow clever use of terrain to block off options.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:48 am 
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Armour of the affected models should probably be 2 as Dunnagh said before, set to 0 due to card and then gets a +2 modifier due to low strength of the flamer. But they would probably die anyway. I agree that the card does sound a bit unbalanced, a bit strange as most of the cards I have looked through are perfectly fine - more of a gimmick than gamebreaking.

For the resource cards, I've wondered why tech warlords suddenly get less resources than close combat ones just because the game goes advanced. I do think it is an error in the rules. But with that said, with the advanced games there is a bit too much resources in one basket (warlord).
I like the idea of having a set number that you always get, in additionto the ones you can loose from the warlord and squads commanders. For example - use the values for the base game but get an additional 3 that you can't loose (or get the same amount that the warlord would generate).


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:45 pm 
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Durandal wrote:
- Rapid Deployment is largely fine but should probably have some kind of penalty for being too close to the enemy so as to avoid easy assassination runs (perhaps taking a penalty to the test if you try to deploy within the command radius of an enemy unit?).


Take a free slash if landing in an enemys CCWR? This means that Rapid Deployment CC units can still perform assassination, it's just risky as hell against harder targets?

(Free slash from X shooty troop squad is nothing really, Free slash from Alakhai et all, is an entirely different matter).


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:36 pm 
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Remember that the Rapid Deployment must be in "unoccupied open terrain" as well. I'm not sure how to read the unoccupied part but open terrain is clear enough. Put in terrain rules where some areas are Light and Heavy Terrain and you will be somewhat safer from Rapid Deployment.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:39 pm 
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Location: Pais Vasco - Spain
I agree with you about Rapid Deployment rules. They need a tweak, but if you modify them, so they need to change some point cost.

For example Etoiles and Valkyries are really really cheap and deadly, but Pretorian Stalkers are 80 points each...

This is the card you are talking about. It is good to play onto enemies (if you have a flamer) and good to play on your troops to give them Impenetrable Armour.

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:24 am 
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The card is played right since its not abbreviated. If it was abbreviated as AV then that would be vehicles, as A is used for infantry armor.

Also, there is a penalty for rapid deployment into melee. Pg 3 of the errata at the top of the page it says "Any model that Rapid Deploys Engaged has 0 Action Points, which can be increased by one by Turning to Burn one Resource Card."

That means if you want to rapid deploy into melee you are going to be murdering your resource pool to do it. A local brotherhood player actually completely redesigned his custom warlord when he saw this change because he kept doing this very thing lol


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:16 pm 
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@Vineheart, that RD rule was a change that came out after the majority of the posts here. Originally it was much stronger, and the WL's Resource cards ALL went when they died (rather than 1/2).


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:42 pm 
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Gotcha, my bad


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:56 am 
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Location: Italy
Rapid deployment is really hard to manage, especially versus troops like Etoiles Mortants that are really effective (both CC and flamer...).

However there is something you can do to prevent massive damage from enemies with RD:
- Use the "Sentry" action
- Avoid to deploy your miniatures amassed in order to avoid template weapons' effects.

Quite sure RD rule will change...


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