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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:51 am 
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Ah well, the novels should be taken with a good amount of salt... ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:09 pm 
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well when you think about it there is nothing wrong with it cybertronic DOES have combat AIs and microchips so its by no mean a stretch to figure that there are computers available in the universe. and as long as computer systems only handle data its rather difficult to have them cause any real harm. now I would understand if most stuff was done like it was in the 80's with most computers being not much more than a command line operating system or having a basic GUI and the internet being a collection databases and BBS's and would only be available in major cities and even then not used by a majority of the population. with things like cyberspace being extremely new introduced by cybertronic as they find out what tech still works and what they can fix but cyberspace is basically described as being a virtual reality version of Second Life and is still all just data on a server or collection of servers. and if you look at the rules set forth by the brotherhood there is nothing prohibiting computers just machines that can make dicisions by themselves.

as a disclaimer I have no access to the rpg materials my only lore resources are the original warzone books and the afore mentioned novels so if something in the rpg sources contradicts my point of view I was unaware of it and so is not taken into account on the points of view I have portrayed here.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:03 pm 
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I'm fine with simple computers in MC, my statement was of a general kind.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:01 am 
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Diselpunk is usually considered the answer to the question wat would the world be without the circuit board, just like steampunk is the answer to the question what would the world be without the combustion engine. MC is not totally diselpunk they are said to have tv's for an example but outside of Cybetronic I prefer there being little computers (except maybe the punchcard variety) and no internet.
I mean the brotherhood doesn't trust the printing press that tells us something about how basic technology can be affected by the symmetry.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Dark Tech is one of the most confusing aspects of MC/WZ. It is a discussion nightmare in the interpretation of what each power has in equipment, or does not have or use. The closest film reference, of which we will all probably know, is the Cylon Battlestar Galactica. The way that was represented in that linked machines caused the downfall of man, is the same way that all representations of MC/WZ has used in their formats. The thinking machines, be they banking, leisure, defence etc, all went wrong and brought about the loss of man's power. How much subsidery machinery is dealt with, differs in several representations of the rules.
The novels, of which I am a great fan, are superb in their story but never add any location brought into the rules, and only the characters involved were ever mentioned. A thing that I find very sad considering the lovely locations used across all planets.
Cheers all.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:59 pm 
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The corruption of tech in the first edition of the RPG, which has to be the most accurate source, revolved around AI's and AI derivative technology. Computers were a part of the Mutant Chronicles universe at about the same level as today. I don't get this whole reference to "Dieselpunk". MC was never Dieselpunk, it was TechnoFantasy, nothing else. Computers exist, AI exist (but only from Cybertronic tech, and it's banned by the Brotherhood). The corruption of tech was limited to the AI's which mankind was to dependant on. And AI's in this case, was any sort of computer capable of making decisions on it's own.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Yeah, I don't get the dieselpunk thing either.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:27 am 
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the not using printing presses is from the first edition of the main rpg book and from the first edition brotherhood sourcebook (along with the fact that you may not make any copies of the chronicles on the walls of the cathedrals because then the darkness might affect the words written there), so not only AI in the rpg. In fact I don't think that warzone ever mentioned if it was AI or computers, it didn't matter it was a wargame such things was never given much place on the battlefield (yes I know computers are very important to warfare in real life).

Saying it was X and nothing else isn't ever really true, there are always elements of other things in it, to me the MC rpg was a niore in space. I don't see where the fantasy part comes from sure, there was some monsters running around but just as mooks or mcguffins to force the plot forward the interesting parts were the people and how they interacted in this environment. Other people see it as dieselpunk. you see it as technofantasy, it's not one of of these things but all of these things, no work of fiction has ever been squarely in one genre, unless of course it's the definition of the genre (like d&d for fantasy), but there are plenty systems and IPs more technofantasy than MC warhammer 40k for an example. Sure there are probably more systems that's more noire or even noire in space, space opera and diselpunk than mc too. What makes MC unique is not the inclusion of these elements but it's unique mix of them.

And a good idea is a good idea regardless which edition it was introduced in, take the Venus day/night cycle for an example that got introduced quite late I believe but it's a nice idea and so hope they keep it.

edit: as for cylons I really hope they take inspiration from firefly instead of BSG if it comes down to it, both are lower tech sci-fi, and the reasons for it is more similiar in BSG but all in all firefly felt a lot more MC to me, less doom and gloom and more about getting it made in an uncaring solar system.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:10 am 
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TheDungen wrote:
In fact I don't think that warzone ever mentioned if it was AI or computers, it didn't matter it was a wargame such things was never given much place on the battlefield (yes I know computers are very important to warfare in real life).


Must be AI. If you read the novels, there are a lot of computers in them. First novel with the Mishima wizkid, second novel in the tac.rooms IIRC and of course the third novel is FULL of computers. Then again, that's mostly Cybertronic and we all know how those two get along ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:46 am 
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I said in warzone as in the warzone rulebooks. The novels arent warzone, nor are they the rpg, they are the novels. The RPG explicitly states that a printing press gutenberg style can be affected by the symmetry (in fact it can affect handwritten works if they are copied, or even words carved into stone), and warzone again just makes an obscure reference to thinking machines and that could be interpreted either as computers or as AIs. I have discussed the last topic elsewhere.

I know Prodos has interpreted it as AIs but on the other hand Modiphius' symmetry dice system described in interviews seem to be able to affect anything technological. Prodos has said technofantasy several times but Chris over at modiphius keeps using term diselpunk.

It's all a matter of interpretation, and which sources you prefer to rely on, I have far to much computers in my life to be feel they add anything interesting to the setting. Also cyberpunk stories tend to show computers in a negative light (it's never the people of all nations coming together and discussing the great issues of the age as fellow and equal human beings over the convenience of the internet) and I neither have technofobia or am able to grasp the concept of why people have it so...
But hey I'm fine with some people wanting to tell those kinds of stories and that's why we have cybertronic right?

Just remember that it's the will of the cardinal when I hand you cybernetic asses to you. All you base does indeed belong to imperial. But that wasn't the intention at all we were hunting heretics, honestly!


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