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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:38 pm 
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Actually cybertronic has been reclaiming the old tech for 200 years in the 'current' time so I'd say they should be pretty post cyber-punk.
I feel that the inclusion of cybertronic level tech in the other crops dilutes the setting much more.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:51 pm 
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Except that the other corps (begrudgingly) use Cybertronic tech to enhance their own stuff, Mishima being the most prominent (but not the only one). This at least according to the old stuff.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:00 am 
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Yeah, as far as I remember corporations keep trading between each other, so you can get Cybertronic tickers and Bauhaus clothes all over the Solar system. So the further you set Cybertronic tech level, the further you set others as well.

I'd be careful with calling the faction "postcyberpunk", do we really want another Infinity? :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:21 am 
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I always considered Cybertronic to be a kind of Scavangers of pre-Pluto technology, they find and reverse engineer old technology (primarly from the Immortal) with no morale limits about human experiments. Back in the older editions we had A.I levels, where they could go amok depending on situations. This is not around currently sadly but I hope to see some version of that to show just how dangerous the technology they use is. A rogue Deathegg on the battlefield or a group of frencied Scorpions might be frustrating for the player that want a perfect working army but it shoudl fit the image of cybertronic as the ones gambling with the devil. ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:40 pm 
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Vince Diamond and Cyril Dent definitely as characters.

Cybertonic Doomtroopers - modular ones to "build" the CC and ranged types.

Chemiman - YES - but please bring back the iconic SR3500 sniper rifles. I still miss the old modern streamlined looking weaponry Cybertronic had...

Stormtroopers - better armoured close range oriented infiltrating shooty types they were. Their roles were kind taken over by the Armoured Chasseurs, but flashbang and chemical weapons are still an interesting concept.

Machinators: might not fit as well as it did, but cheap and fast CC robots could be interesting.

19th Silents: Air deployed heavily armoured shooty types. Might get a usable jetpack to match the Martian Banshees..?

TA6500: Fast moving automated heavy weapon platform. I wouldn't mind the wheeled version (but a hoover one would be interesting too) just don't make it as ridiculous as the previous incarnation was.

Skywitch aka pinwheel of doom: Small automated armed combat choppers.

Just my 2 cents


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:19 am 
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ergotoxin wrote:
Yeah, as far as I remember corporations keep trading between each other, so you can get Cybertronic tickers and Bauhaus clothes all over the Solar system. So the further you set Cybertronic tech level, the further you set others as well.

I'd be careful with calling the faction "postcyberpunk", do we really want another Infinity? :lol:


Infinity? That's that anime game right? You can do really cool things with postcyberpunk that is nothing like that. Think several of the deus ex titles, and mirror's edge, to a certain degree bladerunner (though that was way ahead of it's time) and the reboot of startrek.

The major difference between cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk is that in vanilla cyberpunk technology and authority is evil and repressive of some romantic ideal of humanity and blah blah blah (sorry but my mind filters romantic idealism), while in post-cyberpunk the system just is, and the plot is about living in the world as it is. Post-cyberpunk refrains from making a statement on the romanticism versus enlightenment scale, unlike cyberpunk which is firmly in the romanticism camp (along with space opera and a few other genres) and sci-fi which is firmly in the enlightenment camp.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:38 pm 
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TheDungen wrote:
ergotoxin wrote:
Yeah, as far as I remember corporations keep trading between each other, so you can get Cybertronic tickers and Bauhaus clothes all over the Solar system. So the further you set Cybertronic tech level, the further you set others as well.

I'd be careful with calling the faction "postcyberpunk", do we really want another Infinity? :lol:


Infinity? That's that anime game right? You can do really cool things with postcyberpunk that is nothing like that. Think several of the deus ex titles, and mirror's edge, to a certain degree bladerunner (though that was way ahead of it's time) and the reboot of startrek.

The major difference between cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk is that in vanilla cyberpunk technology and authority is evil and repressive of some romantic ideal of humanity and blah blah blah (sorry but my mind filters romantic idealism), while in post-cyberpunk the system just is, and the plot is about living in the world as it is. Post-cyberpunk refrains from making a statement on the romanticism versus enlightenment scale, unlike cyberpunk which is firmly in the romanticism camp (along with space opera and a few other genres) and sci-fi which is firmly in the enlightenment camp.


First, I hope you understand that my statement regarding Infinity was made in jest. I disagree on some points but let's keep this on-topic.

My opinion is that post-cyberpunk as both a literal genre and visual style (but really, Blade Runner? the proto-cyberpunk movie?) is very different from Mutant Chronicles and from Cybertronic as well. Mutant Chronicles is a romantic setting that fuses actual cyberpunk tropes with gothic scifi, and in a very campy, "pulpy" way, too. It is a setting based on suspension of disbelief, not on reflection.

There is absolutely nothing "postcyberpunk" on Cybertronic and if it would be changed into such style, it will only lead to loss of the setting's magic. It's not like Mutant Chronicles wasn't raped before to comfort with popular trends, right? :P


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:43 pm 
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While the aesthetics may be tied to the fundamental values of the setting, I don't agree that it's a fundamental part of the difference between cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk, for an example mass effect is in many ways a post-cyberpunk universe but it is a lot darker and grittier than say infinity or mirror's edge.

Just like superhero comics are phasing out radiation as the cause of superpowers so must any live setting (which keeps publishing stuff) change to stay ahead of suspension of disbelief.
Two hundred years ago people was willing to believe in steam submarines and that Dr.Jekyll could turn himself into a monster through chemistry. But times changed and today most people know chemistry doesn't work like that.

Look at how John Carter failed, because children today know there isn't life on Mars. On the other hand War of the Worlds chose to omit the things that had become to implausible and so was a much greater box office success.

As for the values inherent in postcyberpunk and cyberpunk, what I want is for cybertronic to have a self image, an esprit d'corp. Beyond "We are cybertronic, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated".
For them to be a science faction as much as a technology faction (For Science!), and have some Data/Spock in addition to their earlier ample amounts of Borg.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:26 am 
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TheDungen wrote:
While the aesthetics may be tied to the fundamental values of the setting, I don't agree that it's a fundamental part of the difference between cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk, for an example mass effect is in many ways a post-cyberpunk universe but it is a lot darker and grittier than say infinity or mirror's edge.

Just like superhero comics are phasing out radiation as the cause of superpowers so must any live setting (which keeps publishing stuff) change to stay ahead of suspension of disbelief.
Two hundred years ago people was willing to believe in steam submarines and that Dr.Jekyll could turn himself into a monster through chemistry. But times changed and today most people know chemistry doesn't work like that.

Look at how John Carter failed, because children today know there isn't life on Mars. On the other hand War of the Worlds chose to omit the things that had become to implausible and so was a much greater box office success.

As for the values inherent in postcyberpunk and cyberpunk, what I want is for cybertronic to have a self image, an esprit d'corp. Beyond "We are cybertronic, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated".
For them to be a science faction as much as a technology faction (For Science!), and have some Data/Spock in addition to their earlier ample amounts of Borg.


Hmm.. The argument about steam submarines and Jekyll is puzzling. It's like if you were saying that people 20 years ago thought that technology in Warzone was plausible. :? Unlike H. G. Wells' War of The Worlds, when Warzone was made, everyone knew already that it is a technologically implausible setting / a "soft scifi" setting / a techno-fantasy setting, whatever. Look at steampunk, its setting is inspired by classic works such as War of the Worlds, but the suspension of disbelief is present among the readers since the beginning - same situation with Warzone or Warhammer. There's not much reason to add technological realism or enlightened questioning of morale or technology as long as the setting fulfills the "Rule of Cool" (sorry for the tvtropes term) and retains its integrity.

Which is exactly why I think a change from "Chemimen" to "Nanomen" is marginal but still harmful, since it would only help the setting to be more "plausible" at cost of losing some integrity (since it would emphasize other implausible elements) and even coolness (since nanotechnology is now pretty much in every science fiction setting, and is actually unwanted in a gothic/dieselpunk one).

Regarding Cybertronic as a faction, I think it's counterproductive to make the faction "rational". All it's swag stems from the dark fascination with mind control, technology and collectivism. I kinda dig my brain-washed Chasseurs, don't you? What I'm saying is that Warzone is totally based on techno-horror atmosphere mixed with splatter, not too different from Warhammer's "grimdark", which actually inspired many of its elements back in the days. Borgs are dark and cool. Data isn't.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your argument though. Howgh! :ugeek:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:44 pm 
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Sure it was implausible, there are several very implausible elements, but the idea that a totally digital society who suffered a massive datavirus and had to get rid of all microprocessors and thus were stuck with perfecting an earlier technological tier isn't all that bad. The idea that chemicals can be used to create supermen is however much more ridiculous. I'm sorry but if you call it magic I shall suspend my disbelief but if you name it after a real life field of science I expect it to behave somewhat like that field. It's a case of "it behaves like reality until stated otherwise" and even then there are a number of times you can override peoples idea of how reality works because you lose grasp on them because they no longer feel they can identify with the universe nor anticipate where it's going. Let me put it like this, we never need to point out that most fictional universes functions per newtonian mechanics rather than Aristotelian mechanics, that gravity works the way we expect it too and if i throw a ball (or a grenade) it'll keep going until it either hits an obstacle or the ground. We know these things, just like we know chemistry is perfectly well for making hormones that can boost a person to certain levels, but not permanently make a person superhuman. That's why nanotechnology works because fewer people are aware of it's limitations.

Also every faction has it's own aestetics that not only vary in the region it is inspired by but in the time it's inspired by, for an example capitol is inspired by the second world war and vietnam, while Bauhaus is inspired by the first world war, the franco-german war and to some extent by the napoleonic wars. The point is that while the settign may be dieselpunk the factions actually vary in how much dieselpunk they are. They also have other influences, imperal wolfbanes for an example aren't very dieselpunk.

Cybertronic is not inspired by geographical or historic influences but by visions of the future. Sure it has diesel punk elements because the aesthetics that their technology was based on came from the other corps but they have been building atop that with knowledge slowly but surely deciphered from the old era. It's dieselpunk in it's structure but with ridiculously high tech stuff strapped on top.

No I don't like brainwashed Chasseurs, it makes them utterly impossible to empathise with for me. And that makes them unable to be cool for me. sure as a mook or villain, but again it's only cool as a plot device not as a character. And it stinks of Mary Shelly's legacy of anti-intellectualism. Which is fine (and even the rule) in setting, but not from an omniscient perspective.
I'm not saying these elements should be removed, I'm however saying that I'd like some alternate interpretations of Cybertronic, especially from their own perspective, sure they may be brainwahsed but they wouldn't be aware that they are. How do they see themselves what drives them, what are their vision of the future.
I like to see them as the faction who believes that only be reclaiming the lost tech can the legion be defeated, which makes them a foil for the brotherhoods ideas that technology is evil and only through faith can the legion be defeated. Neither side being good or right both being well-intentioned extremists, neither willing to compromise with it's views towards the other. I mean you could even say that Cybertronic is wrong and the brotherhood is right from an omniscient view (though I'd like it better if you didn't) but the point is that they don't know that, they have their idea that they are dead set on pursuing. They are the reaction to a thousand years of technological stigmatisation and repression.

And no the Borg are utterly boring, they have no point and purpose other than being a plot element, a macguffin to cause episodes to happen, Data in an exploration of human nature, what is emotion? What is self awareness? how does a feeling differ from a thought? Data as Spock before him, offers a distinctly different way to view ourselves and the very way that we identify ourselves. The Borg are just another enemy. You never find yourself considering 'what if I was a borg?'.
Darkness isn't cool in it's own right, it's cool because it forces characters to make decisions and consider implications. And the darkness that comes from people being selfish, short-sighted or close minded is always cooler and more complex than the "for evulz" darkness. And most of the problems in the Mutant chronicles universe comes from people, the corporate wars, the awakening of the dark legion. Even the legion itself couldn't function without a constant supply of corpses from the corporate wars and heretics to become centurions and nepharites. Mutant chronicles isn't a a total crapsack universe in it's own right (though it wasn't exactly a good one either), the people in it made it that way. Unlike say warhammer 40k where the universe is pretty much out to get you by default.

Also you say every setting does nanotechnology and believe that not having it would preserve the setting originality, first of I've not seen it all that much, secondly yet you say "the setting is romanticism based"... yeah because that's original, it's not like 99.99% of all fictional settings are totally down on the romanticism side if things. I mean even the star trek reboot is a romantic story rather than an enlightened one, the reboot of the enlightenment setting (the same goes for every ST series after TOS in ever increasing amounts). I'm not asking the mutant chronicles setting to be moved to the enlightenment side of the spectrum but I'm asking that one single faction may be given that ideal as it's self image, it's internal propaganda if you will.


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