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Pathfinder Unit Upgrades question
http://forum.prodosgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2162
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Author:  Vineheart01 [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Pathfinder Unit Upgrades question

So the whole unit upgrade thing is confusing to me, as im the only one that has the option for it or even cares.

What exactly are the requirements for the squad upgrade? Specifically thinking of adding a Pathfinder to either Commandos or Mourning Wolves. I thought they were a Lord at first but then i noticed it said Squad Upgrade and got really confused.

Are there units i cannot buy a pathfinder to?
Does he upgrade a model, or just add to the unit?
Does he take over Squad Commander role?

Also Pathfinder specific question: do i get unlimited default Grenade ammo, or do i purchase those too/count to my maximum? I believe the base grenade is just the normal gun profile and has no ammo, but not 100% sure.

Any help would be appreciated!

Author:  ADG_Wraith [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pathfinder Unit Upgrades question

Pathfinders are advisors. They join a squad but don't lead them. They're a separate model, not an upgrade. Check out the rule in the specialist skills section of the book.

For the Grenades, my reading is that you pay per individual grenade you want to take. That includes any of the three types, but there is a maximum of 2 electroshock and/or 2 smoke grenades.

Author:  Vineheart01 [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pathfinder Unit Upgrades question

How come the Mourning Wolves dont pay for their grenades then? Plus that means he actually cant fire every turn...which is lame but i guess is a tradeoff for how cheap he is for what he offers. The only difference is the rule's name to select different ammo is different, but the rule itself is the same.
Granted, the Mourning Wolves do not have the third grenade option at all (the Electro Shocked one) but the other two modes are identical and nothing shows limited ammo far as i can tell. They have a different third grenade but it takes a card to fire. (also i just noticed its an Offensive Smoke Screen by comparing the two lol oh how many slight word changes i tend to overlook...)

Also thanks for answering my Squad Upgrade question, that makes total sense.

EDIT: Oh, the EQUIPMENT mark on Pathfinders mentions "Howler Grenade Launcher with Fragmentation Grenades..." - im assuming if it is indeed a limited ammo, that means he comes with 1 by default?

Author:  ADG_Wraith [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pathfinder Unit Upgrades question

Not sure... I'll pose the question to the brains trust and hopefully that can be fixed for final release of Imperial.

Author:  TARDISrider [ Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pathfinder Unit Upgrades question

I could be wrong as I do not have the stats in front of me, but I thought the pathfinders came equipped with a supply of fragmentation grenades for the howler (ie, no limit)? I thought the smoke and electro grenades were "special equip" and therefore extra and limited.

Author:  Vineheart01 [ Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pathfinder Unit Upgrades question

TARDISrider wrote:
I could be wrong as I do not have the stats in front of me, but I thought the pathfinders came equipped with a supply of fragmentation grenades for the howler (ie, no limit)? I thought the smoke and electro grenades were "special equip" and therefore extra and limited.


Thats the problem. It appears they are, but the way its worded in the purchasing extra grenades section it makes it sound like they have to buy more of the standard grenade which is stupid.

Reviving this post because now in 1.2 theres even more Pathfinder dumbness.

Warlord pathfinder no longer pays for his grenades but still has a limit, however he can have 6 of them anyway so 1 per turn typically. Still has the problem of not specifying he starts with fragmentation and has limitless supply of them (further confusion later)

Adviser pathfinder DOES have to pay for his 4 grenades for some stupid reason. Completely counters bringing an adviser because either his gun is useless since it still has the same fragmentation problem or he is expensive due to his four shots...FOUR!

Yet we come to the only other unit with this grenade launcher - the Mourning Wolves. They buy the gun and come with limitless stocks of the basic fragmentation grenade AND their two specials. One of which is the same special pathfinders use. What the heck?

Why are pathfinders' grenades so shafted? I dont get it. Theyre not an amazingly powerful model so why shaft them with limited ammo/additional costs?

Im going to try and contact Prodos about this. Yeah its irritating me that much that the rules are this inconclusive especially after a new update. Im also pissed about the Trenchers nerf but at least thats worded right (wasnt a fan of trenchers to begin with and they nerfed them....dafuq)

Author:  ADG_Wraith [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pathfinder Unit Upgrades question

Have a look at page 69-

"EQUIPMENT: Howler Grenade Launcher with Fragmentation Grenades, Bastard Sword"

So yeah, full supply of frag grenades, just need to purchase for the others.

Author:  Daemonette666 [ Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pathfinder Unit Upgrades question

The adviser thing brings up another question. Does the Pathfinder replace another model's spot in the squad?

From what has been discussed, you do not have to include the base cost for a squad trooper and then add an upgrade cost for the pathfinder, only the pathfinder's cost is added to the squad. But does this mean the squad is still 12 Wolfbanes + the Pathfinder, or does it mean I can only field 11 Wolfbanes and the Pathfinder? It looks like Mourning Wolves do not get Pathfinder advisers in the Imperial rules version 1.2.

There are a few other armies where you can add an adviser to the squad. Leopold Von Jaeger adds onto Bauhaus BAK, Iron Lady onto Heavy Infantry squads, Screaming Devil onto Crimson Devil Squads. The others seem to be squad commander upgrades not advisers, and would actually replace the existing squad commander and incur the additional cost to upgrade the model.

Can you clarify this?

Author:  ADG_Wraith [ Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pathfinder Unit Upgrades question

It's not explicit in the rules under the Advisor special skill. I would say that it's max of 12+ Pathfinder.

Advisors always come as a separate model, they're not paying to upgrade costs. A number of the ones above that you mention were once squad commander upgrades but are now advisors.

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