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Sell me on Hand Rippers. And a lot of other Imperial things.
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Author:  skitter [ Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell me on Hand Rippers. And a lot of other Imperial thi

48 x 48 inch tables, decently populated with terrain, although I will suggest placing more on the edges (deployment zones), to limit how deadly RD can be.

Most of my opponents seem to be Mishima, which means a spam of ronin, hatamoto (aka hate-a-lot-o), and tiger dragons, plus the mandatory meka. I know of two Bauhaus players, and probably one Capitol, but these armies are easier to figure out. Bauhaus at least seems to play like Imperial. Cybertronic requires killing the mandatory Exterminateur Attila, which is.... about as fun as trying to kill the Meka.

I know of one legion player, and he just spams troops, a cheap warlord and a killy unit of Nasca Razides. Again, real "funny" to fight against, especially when Praetorian Stalkers drop in behind you and kill all vehicles within reach.

Author:  Bergqvist [ Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell me on Hand Rippers. And a lot of other Imperial thi

I tried ISF for the first time today. Teleporting behind the enemy worked ace. Took out of squad of Valkyries that way. With A15, they were tough as nails in close combat when the few surviving Valkyries got to hit back. I don't think I lost a single one in that close combat. Hitting on 17 with St11 and RoA2 is not bad at all.

Author:  skitter [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell me on Hand Rippers. And a lot of other Imperial thi

Okay, I'm a bit confused here. I assume you were using a Tech warlord, hence the armour 15, but where are you getting st 11 roa 2? ISF are st 8, hand rippers give +1 roa 2, Deep Cut is +2 roa 1 with "RoA of the Hand Ripper – DeepCut cannot be increased by any means." The only way you would get st 11 is with a CC warlord.

Author:  Bergqvist [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell me on Hand Rippers. And a lot of other Imperial thi

Good point. It might have been freaking sunstroke of something (it's really hot over here). I can't figure out where that came from either. Might have read from my Blood Beret card or something and then assumed that's how they worked. Doh! Got to talk to my opponent about that. :oops:
That said, they would've been fantastic in close combat had I used a close combat warlord. =P

Author:  skitter [ Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell me on Hand Rippers. And a lot of other Imperial thi

Without a cc warlord ISF are kinda baaaad at cc, hence my hate of hand rippers.

On a side note has anyone noticed that, in HotSS, bayonets are listed as being described in the ISF entry? The squad that dosen't use them? And punisher blades as a Wolfbane weapon? And not the capitol/bauhaus ones I managed to dig up?

Anyways, I can't really get behind the power shot explanation, hoping for a 5% each roll just dosen't convince me, not with my luck. Especially that, with upgrades, CC ISF still won't hold a candle to Blood Berets. It's like someone said, let's make a unit that has the option of doing everything, but buying the ability to do that will make them less cost effective than a squad of trenchers and a support OOC choice.

I admit, that's unfair of me, ISF are still troops, and can be very good troops. But, in a meta dominated by cheap troop choices these guys have a very hard time competing and leave me with the conviction that they just need a little bit EXTRA for their base cost. Or even just making their specalizations not depend on the warlord type (I can dream, right?).

I'm honestly thinking of letting this topic die, I'm probably too stubborn to be convinced by any resonable arguments and I'd rather not go down in forum history as the constantly unsatisfied pessimist.

Author:  ADG_Wraith [ Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell me on Hand Rippers. And a lot of other Imperial thi

Just keep an eye out for the updated Imperial book when it lands. I'm aware that there have been significant changes to ISF in that book.

Author:  Vineheart01 [ Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell me on Hand Rippers. And a lot of other Imperial thi

I agree the powershot thing is annoying, ive voiced my opinion before about nerfing it since it makes vehicle armor and impenetrable armor overcosted in most situations just to have a random shmuck with a crap gun deny it. Specifically the vehicle side, since it makes no sense AVV- against a vehicle normally warrants a reroll suddenly gets no roll....? wat?

Anyway different subject.

It would remove some fluff to them if they could use any of their options regardless of the warlord, but i do kinda wish they'd let us do that. Their slide packs and base RoA 2 make them lean towards melee, but melee warlords suck balls for MoW armies. Their only range heavy options i can come up with cost ~70-80pts more than Trenchers, and only marginally harder to kill thanks to IA10.
Either that, or allow even more customization to change ALL their stats including melee weapon so when we arent making them melee based we arent paying for a wasted RoA, TTB attack in melee, or an assault rifle if were focusing on melee. Right now they just feel like great melee-warlord melee troops, and mediocre at best anything else.

I use Timothy almost exclusely, and the only option i see for ISF with a Tech/Psychic warlord is anti-infantry based...costing 270pts in the end..ouch..

Also the size of the game dramatically changes how you play. At the points you play, you have to treat each unit as important and priceless, therefore you cant waste any points for preferences or gimicks because it will probably cost you the game. I usually play 1250-1500pts, and at this point im trying to revert back to my 40k tactics of finding a "throwaway" unit to distract my opponent. I cant do that at lower points lol.

Author:  skitter [ Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell me on Hand Rippers. And a lot of other Imperial thi

Well, now I'm terribly impatient. Any other insider information you can share?

The best use I find for ISF is a cheap trencher type unit but with IR Goggles that can snipe out models hiding behing idiotic amounts of cover (alas 90 pts with no HMG), but that's only because I prefer to let my Blood Berets do the hacking. On a side note, Berets make fantastic CC warlords, good stats, free Plasma Carbine and free Heavy Chain Ripper giving them 13(13) armour (70 point warlord anyone?). The day we can make Beret Tech warlords will be the day the forum explodes with the scream of other factions.

OOC not withstanding, points appear to hurt Imperials a bit, since this faction seems to have quite pricy units. I'm quite aware I'm obsessed about this, but that's due to meeting far too many hatamoto and tiger dragons... 17 points per model, really? Maybe this will change for me once I start messing around with larger points/different OOC's. Right now, I gotta learn to win with smaller points.

Still, I agree the ISF need tweaking to make them more viable, and I really wish this takes the form of far more freedom in the spec selection (and better stats, still dreaming). Someone here compared them to jacks of all trades, but sadly I tend to view them as specialists that don't quite make the cut.

Author:  ADG_Wraith [ Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell me on Hand Rippers. And a lot of other Imperial thi

All I can say is you're likely to see it within the next 3-4 weeks (hopefully)

Please be aware that I'm not a Prodos employee so I'm not privvy to all details.

Author:  Mickey [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell me on Hand Rippers. And a lot of other Imperial thi

Personally I think that hand rippers should have at least +2 to St instead of +1. It makes no sense to give +1 to the enemy model's armor when a non-CC warlord is fielded (they are mini chainsaws for Algeroth's sake! Body parts should fly when these babies spin).

Also I find that ISF with IR goggles is my favorite option too. Combine it with the Somne medal (1pt per model; +2 to weapon range, the weapon can't use active or passive skills) for nifty results.

And something completely irrelevant: 10+ years ago I bought a 2nd edition Blood Beret squad of 5 models (they are very similar to ISF regarding looks), charger included. Anyway I painted them 10+ years ago almost exactly like the ISF in page 47 of the imperial beta rulebook. Imagine my surprise when I read the PDF.

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