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 Post subject: Re: Mishima Meka
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:16 am 
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TheDungen wrote:
you just linked to your search not to your results

Damn it. Every time I click them it comes up with my results and then focuses on the one I am referencing. I'll have to copy and paste in the morning.


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 Post subject: Re: Mishima Meka
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:37 am 
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I kind of like the smooth, techy look of Mishima this go around (it was kind of present in previous incarnations, but still kind of covered in a bunch of ostentatious, ceremonial-looking bits). The new Meka apes the style well and actually looks more like what Mishiman battle suits looked like in my mind when reading the RPG source book. Hell, the overall look kind of reminds me of the Shoa Ace suit.

They are definitely going with more of the Far Eastern Cyberpunk flavour that RPG Mishima tended to have than the outright Feudal style you often saw in their WZ minis (though since Far East Cyberpunk tends to use a lot of feudal Japan stylings, there is plenty of overlap).

It is a direction I am a distinct fan of in either case. It still feels like it is aping old-school East Asian aesthetics without just kind of looking like they are donning ancient armour and marching out on to the field. To me, Mishima was always a faction that felt a bit old school but with an edge of the new. Kind of like filtering Meiji Restoration Japan mixed with elements of WWII Japan through a few passes of William Gibson and calling it a day.

They felt modern, they felt a bit cutting edge but they had a deep feeling of grand, imperial tradition mixed in.

Adding in a bit of influence from China, Korea, Taiwan and other East Asian countries is also probably on the cards as well (or at least should be, the organized criminal element is the Triad after all).


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 Post subject: Re: Mishima Meka
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:34 am 
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as it looks now I think the meka looks top heavy and front heavy which would make it awkward to pilot

as I mentioned earlier I think it just needs a few minor tweaks mostly the reduction of the giant chest bulge, extending the bulb part of the body down more, and the adjustment of the "head" to be further back. I would also like to see banners for the meka to make it feel more traditional.


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 Post subject: Re: Mishima Meka
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Maybe that's my problem durandal, the setting is mostly considered diselpunk with a cyberpunk offshoot in cybertronic, but we're moving a lot towards being more cyberpunk all across the board (more cyberpunk than it used to be, not more cyberpunk than diselpunk), capitol is probably the only exception. And I've never really been a fan of cyberpunk, to much like my day job I suppose.

For an example when watchign the matrix, It's really hard believing the AI's will take over the world when you you've been working for a couple of days to make a computer program do a decent translation of one sentence.


Last edited by TheDungen on Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mishima Meka
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:06 pm 
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cybermonkey wrote:
If you mean the picture on page 37 of beasts of war I am sorely disappointed. Prodos' new concept is far superior and far more mishima looking then what appears to be a generic robot with a bad mallet hand! I am still searching for images of what I perceived t to look like but it certainly wasn't that. In all honesty thought love the new meka. It's shoulder pads are right compared to the smaller minis and the wide hips look like he traditional 'trousers'. I would like to see back banners an a more mempo or samurai helmet head alternative but this new version is far superior to the beasts of war image.

We have totally different opinion about that picture then. For me it is Meka as it should be = heavy, tank like walking armour. Prodos one is for me what you call generic s-f robot. Also its wide hips would in fact be not really helpful [combined with its narrow shoulders] in close combat, because his arm reach would be reduced.


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 Post subject: Re: Mishima Meka
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:01 pm 
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You're right we do have very differing views on it. I feel it is a 3-toed monstrosity that shows nothing of any feudal Japanese aspect. It has a giant blacksmiths hammer, westernised plate armour shoulders and a very generic head. The new one has toes that look like traditional sandals, shoulders that look like a large version of the ronin, and many body parts that IMO look like a samurai in armour. As I have said previously the new one isn't what I was expecting but I think it's fantastic (and far superior to the old western blacksmith design).


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 Post subject: Re: Mishima Meka
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:43 am 
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I've got to be honest, when I look at the Meka I see what the Infinity Szalamandra TAG should have looked like ;) I don't get that same vibe from any of the other walkers in WZ:R and to me, that's perfect. It's a great looking walker (IMHO) and it's going to help draw in people who might look at the Vulcan and go 'ehh' or the old Meka and think 'what is this, classic battletech?'. Perhaps that comes at the expense of losing some of the old school aesthetic and I guess that's a hard sell if you're invested in that.

..but I think that in a re-imagining of Warzone where time and technology have advanced enough over the previous editions to allow Prodos to add their own spin on things, if you are going to say "everyone has walkers / power armour now" then the right thing to do is to look at the faction that was well known for having good power armour in the first place and say "...only theirs is much more advanced than everyone else's". After all, there's only so many times Mishima can go to Cybertronic and say "We want to license new components from you - but you must make them look big and clunky!" before Cybertronic turn around and say "No, you will have these factory seconds from our Death Egg production facility and you will like it!".

In short:

1) Shadow Walker, I respect your passion for the old ways, even if I don't agree with you :D
2) I agree with what others have said about a customisation / weapons pack for the Meka. It would be a great way to not only personalise the walker in the spirit of the faction, it's also a great concession to the older style for those who want it.
3) As per my comments on the KS update, I also agree that it might look better with a lower profile body section as per the concept art but I'm pretty sure it will still look cool even if that doesn't get changed :)


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 Post subject: Re: Mishima Meka
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:42 pm 
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Location: Bilbrook, West Midlands.
I`ve spent last few days reading the old and looking at the pictures.I think one of the best discription of this machine comes from the RPG Mihima book. Here is a true but wrote by me discription. The huge armoed battle suit is justly feared, it stalks across the battlefield shaking the very earth. In an age before cybertronic components made power suits possible these hydraulic walkers were the ultimate war mmachine. This new age as made them deadlier. The pilot is located into a command module with his legs in the chest and his head and shoulders in the head. The machine is controlled by twin joy sticks and footpedals which allow steering and weapon control (joy stick).
It goes on to list all weapon types. Since reading this and other discriptions I am of the opinion that actually she fits the job fine, and if there were a couple of banner poles on the L/R back, it`s okay.
Shadow Walker I Know your passion, but I going for this baby even more so with the scale shots. I slaute you for your ideas and dedication my friend.
Cheer all.


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 Post subject: Re: Mishima Meka
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:39 am 
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TheDungen wrote:
Maybe that's my problem durandal, the setting is mostly considered diselpunk with a cyberpunk offshoot in cybertronic, but we're moving a lot towards being more cyberpunk all across the board (more cyberpunk than it used to be, not more cyberpunk than diselpunk), capitol is probably the only exception. And I've never really been a fan of cyberpunk, to much like my day job I suppose.


The cyberpunk stuff in Mishima is mostly RPG-era fluff and some of the art. There is one particular piece of art for Mishima (black and white) that depicts a few guys in leather jackets, sporting mirror-shades and standing in what appears to be the glow of neon lights. To me, it was very evocative of Mishima's style.

And throughout the rest of the book we are treated to depictions of heavy use of robotics, power armour, and even cybernetics. You get a feel of the very old clashing with the very new. Both of these things evoke, not only the Meiji Restoration but also the cyberpunk genre itself (which is a deconstruction of utopian sci-fi settings where technology made the world a better place).

Just kind of a stylistic mesh the works quite nicely across multiple aesthetics. In the end, RPG Mishima were one of the factions that pushed the high-tech look in a lot of places. The game is a mishmash of styles in the end and some may play more to those styles than others. Alongside Capitol (who are a faction more evocative of the 60's and 70's than the 20's to 40's you tend to see in dieselpunk stuff) and Cybertronic (who are a faction who are all about chrome, tubes and mirrorshades), Mishima are one of the factions that buck the more "pure" dieselpunk-style factions (Imperial and Bauhaus who both ape a lot of late 1800's and early to mid 1900's aesthetics).

It's just part and parcel of being a weird-fiction mish-mash setting in the style of 2000AD comics. There is likely to be a lot of aesthetic divergence and overlap, it is part of the charm of the setting. Though it contains a lot of setting conceits to keep a retro feel, it still has bits of near-future sci-fi in there along with the retroism. It is a setting where a guy dressed as a European knight, a late 60's jarhead and a dude in a black trenchcoat and mirrorshades with a pair of katana can coexist happily in the same setting, if not as members in the same party.

These quirks are what make the setting fun, at least to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Mishima Meka
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:10 am 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
When i hear Mishima I always think of the author of the same name. He espoused and loathed the new Japan, feeling that it had lost the warrior spirit that characterised the essence of his country.

The mishima of mutant chronicles repreent the apex of this ideal pushed to it's limit. Advancement of tech with a feodal mentality.

In that frame of mind I find the Meka the perfect representation of all this.


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