Prodos Games LTD Forum

Done with AVP
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Author:  Deadcat [ Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:26 am ]
Post subject:  Done with AVP

I played another (4th) game tonight and I finally decided to put AVP aside.
It would have had potential but the game as it is has to many flaws and is not supported enough by the game designers.
So I have to say it is not smoothly playable to make me really happy. I will return to Space Hulk. It's definitely the better game.

I will not proceed in developing 2-player-scenarios and I will not explain it to more of my gaming buddies because it is
so cumbersome. It cost me more than 30 minutes to explain and there are still open questions. Gameplay is to slow either.
Tonight we played more than 3 hours at scenario 1. It's to much time for what it does.

Sorry, bye.

Author:  tootz [ Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Done with AVP

Sorry to hear your leaving.
but I use the bug hunt ruleset as much as the AVP ruleset.and the bug hunt set is sooo much better its like it was written for this game.and with the last update they added predators its so damn flexible its easy to make your own scenarios.
but I wish you well.
I had space hulk game.and to be honest after a while I found it boring the space hulk world is so narrow. its basically the same thing terms vs genes and on a different "hulk". so story/scenarios are too alike for my liking.having said that,the game runs great and rules are sound but it isn't as diverse as a lot of similar games.
I think one of the problems is people who already have the game have been waiting for the store to open for release of wave 2 stuff which I believe means more tiles more figures etc etc.this would open the game up even more!

Author:  ntsekov [ Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Done with AVP

Sorry to hear that, but if you cannot bear problems with the rules, you will find there are many games where the rules are very cumbersome or contradictory* - the experience to make the rules clean and following a specific turn flow, avoiding any possible misinterpretations or confusion is something that usually comes with game design experience (and sometimes even experience fails). New games often have bugs, and no mater what you think, AvP is still very new, and it was released during the slow summer season, and at some point all the issues will be addressed.

Most of the problems can be easily ruled out in few hours work (hell, give me a day with the rules and I'd turn them to Warmachine/Hordes level of clarity - at least if someone bothers to check my grammar), but at the moment Prodos are busy with something else.

For once I can point out that even FFG games usually receive Errata/FAQ few months after their release. Descent is a huge title and yet it brings LoS and movement disputes in almost every single game session. Hell, even games on the level of Games Workshop WH40K are still being laughed at quite often because of balancing issues, and this is after 30 years or so in constant development and new releases. Infinity 3rd Edition still has problems and needs attention even after all the major changes in the 3rd edition book.

Author:  Popsical [ Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Done with AVP

If we bring GW into the equation then AvP is positively clear cut and simple. GW openly admit they couldnt care less what the rules and balance are like. If GW (a multi million pound company of world wide trade) can produce a game like 40k which has little or no play testing or proof reading (either that or they are utterly **** at it), then Prodos have done a pretty good job with AvP on a fraction of the budget and staff hours. Good luck with your search for the holy grail of wargames, "the hunt begins". :lol:

Author:  Deadcat [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Done with AVP

Hey Guys, thanks for your kind replies.
I really appreciate that a lot.

Perhaps you're right and in the next month AVP will develop into a better game.
I will keep an eye on the forum and have a look at it every now and then.

@ Popsical: Thanks for wishing me luck finding a better game, but I don't need that because it's already on my shelf. ;)
It's called SpaceHulk and I play it since '91 when it came out.

And talking of narrow SpaceHulk: I got the basic game and the 2 expansions (Deathwing and Genestealer) and the Campaign book and a bunch of special rules from White Dwarf.
There are Rules for Terminators, Genestealers, Power Armoured Marines, Chaos Terminators, Eldar Harlequins and guess what…
I will not proceed in converting old SpaceHulk missions for AVP but I'll come up with some cool rules for Predators in SpaceHulk and convert the AVP-missions for SpaceHulk instead. Should be easy and a ton of fun! ;)

We often play MegaSpaceHulk on a much larger scale than the content of the basic box allows. I got three basic games and every special tile you could get from a white dwarf. So we build a gigantic scenario on a couple of tables and play with four marines players each having 6 to 8 Terminators. With rules for exploring crates and rooms ... and a big bad Patriarch at the end.

In addition I designed a set of round corridor tiles and corridors with two spaces width (Including missions for them).

So, plenty of things to explore. Didn't get boring in the last 25 years and will not get even close to it for another 25 years with the Predators as a new Xenos-Force and a few new Aliens and Power Loaders and Sentry Guns and APCs and whatever comes along the way.

Author:  Popsical [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Done with AVP

I too loved Space hulk 1st ed, (never played the remake, simply didnt trust GW not to ruin my fond memories) it was and still is a great game. Im hoping AvP gains the same esteem in my mind.
My personal favourite from that GW classic era is Space marine 1st ed, I still play it, although solo these days (no one else has any models in my area). I bet the newer and budding games companies cant believe their luck that GW left such a massive hole in the market for them to all fill. I still play GW's Block mania from the mid eighties too, GW dropped the board game aspect and forgot its how they got so many people into the hobby.
Long may the new companies like Prodos, profit from GW's idiocy.

Author:  Deadcat [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Done with AVP

@ Popsical: Unfortunately for me I never played block mania!
And I totaly agree with you concerning the GW policy regarding the discontinuation of all the great board games.
I couldn't have put it better than you.

The 3rd edition of SpaceHulk edited a year ago is pretty good and like the original from '91 though.
Quite expensive, but I'd recommend it strongly if you can't get your hands on an original version + Deathwing on eBay or anywhere.

Author:  Arterial Spray [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Done with AVP

Popsical wrote:
...I bet the newer and budding games companies cant believe their luck that GW left such a massive hole in the market for them to all fill. I still play GW's Block mania from the mid eighties too, GW dropped the board game aspect and forgot its how they got so many people into the hobby.
Long may the new companies like Prodos, profit from GW's idiocy.

Thats actually a really good point. I got into WHFantasy through Talisman and a couple of others, partially because it worked as a backup for when we had too few players for D&D. And spacecrusade lead me to 40k. Boardgames provide a complete experience for one payment and function very nicely as a gateway into the fiction, and if they provide a few miniatures you can then use in the wargame down the line, all the better.

As for AvP: If you have already invested a vast amount of time and money into a very similar game (as the op says with spacehulk) perhaps it's not going to be worth your time (though you could always use the minis for a spacehulk/AvP hybred, which I think many people intended to do anyway). But either way i think the game is going to need a spot more patience yet.

Author:  Deadcat [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Done with AVP

Okay, so I will sip a bit more tea and wait (and play some SpaceHulk). ;)

Author:  Jarek@Prodos [ Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Done with AVP

Hi there, we are working on Errata and FAQ, that will clear our some issue and put balance in place. Thanks

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