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 Post subject: AvP and Prometheus
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:34 pm 
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Location: Ellesmere Port, UK
So, there are many theories on how prometheus fits in with all of the rest of things and here are my thoughts:

Engineers:
arguably the most intelligent, athletic and advanced race in the universe capable capable of replicating any and all biological matter. My theory is that this race has been hunted almost to extinction by predators for being what was at one point the ultimate prey - until xenomorphs were discovered.

I believe that what is displayed in prometheus regarding aliens and the black goo is the engineers replicating the discovered xenomorphs in a sort of treaty with the predators in an attempt for them to prevent their own extinction.

Prometheus and AvP:
As we see in the opening scene of prometheus, an engineer gives his life to put the first life on earth. This coincides with the pyramid and eggs being placed on earth in AvP to cultivate a hunting ground for predators - only it wasn't the predators that put us here as alien cattle, it was engineers.

In short i believe the engineers struck a deal to manufacture colonies of xenomorphs so that predators didn't hunt them - that is how and why we exist, to prevent the extinction of our creators by hosting other prey.

with regards to the dodgy mutations seen in prometheus, seeing as what was found appeared to be some sort of research and manufacture structure, maybe the black goo was still in development just to be tested on humans or maybe it was designed to convert a specific unknown race into xenomorphs and they were wrong that it was being sent to earth.

I think this fits and makes sense but id like to know what you guys think :D


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 Post subject: Re: AvP and Prometheus
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:35 pm 
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Location: The Marches
I kind of still subscribe to the old fan theory (which may have been supported to an extent by the comics) that the Pilot race created the Yautja, Humans and Xenomorphs for various purposes.
I see no reason to alter that based upon what we have seen in Promethius (if you even want to try and incorporate it).
I would say that trying to decide upon anything concrete right now when they are working on another film might be a mistake. The time for conjecture is over, the time for waiting has arrived.


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 Post subject: Re: AvP and Prometheus
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:55 pm 
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If the engineers did create the Yautja and then they started hunting their creators to extinction, that would be a real story to tell.


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 Post subject: Re: AvP and Prometheus
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:46 pm 
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I like that idea.


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 Post subject: Re: AvP and Prometheus
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:41 pm 
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I've always seen the Predators as a sort of nomadic, post-apocalyptic race. It fits their modus operendi too well. You have an utterly savage (caveman-like race) that hunts using incredibly advanced weapons, but discards these weapons routinely to fight with simple blades. It doesn't make sense (unless the predators in the movies are simply "redneck deer hunters" of a species that rolls their eyes and looks the other way).

Suppose their homeworlds were wiped out in a war where their technology failed to protect them from an invading species (perhaps the Engineers?) and they were forced to flee and hide just to avoid extinction. Technological progression and scientific exploration would halt as they would only know what they took with them. If the engineers used bio-weapons against them, it would have dramatically altered the survivors collective psyche: "Science and technology failed us, we were hunted to near extinction... We must become the ultimate hunter to survive."

If the demise of their civilization occurred millions of years ago, it would give them plenty of time to come out of hiding, condition themselves to be hulking murder-machines, and to forget why they hunt, or why they are nomads in the first place (as the story is retold over the millennia). Think about it; their ancestors could have mastered the technological world (monomoloecular blades, Faster than light travel, plasma projection weapons, manipulation of the visible/IR spectum, exosuits?). But this civilization came into conflict with a race that mastered biological manipulation (the Engineers) and they were wiped out in a desperate war where none of that mattered. Did their enemy create such a devastating bio weapon to win the war that it destroyed both civilizations in the process? Remember, the derelict in Alien was described by Ridley Scott as "a bomber of sorts" from an ancient war. Even Dallas mentions that the Space Jockey appears to be fossilized (and potentially millions of years old). Is this ship a ghost of a long forgotten war between The Engineers and the Predators? Is what we see in Prometheus the last attempt of a dying race to stop the Aliens from wiping out even the Engineers (gone horribly wrong of course)?

So there you have it, my thoughts on a plausible origin story connecting the three alien species of this merged franchise that doesn't take away from the original movies (I'm looking at you AVP and AVP:R).


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 Post subject: Re: AvP and Prometheus
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:24 pm 
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I like it.

Unless, they hunt and also steal the technology of their victims using their space travel time to turn what they find in to more hunting tools through reverse engineering and tampering - hence the almost eclectic assortment of weaponry.

They do seem very nomadic/tribal and it would make sense that their homeworld was destroyed (perhaps by engineers), but assuming they then hunted the engineers to near extinction might be the reasoning for the attack. Maybe they found a large trace of the predators (during the pyramid building phase in Antarctica) and that's why they had set a course to destroy earth in prometheus.


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 Post subject: Re: AvP and Prometheus
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:14 pm 
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I don't feel that Predator weapons are harvested from other races, so much as they are adapted from their collapsed civilization into tools for the hunt. Technologies that did not help them survive and hunt were forgotten (as useless works that didn't save their worlds). As for the why they were at war ... competition for resources/turf (people seldom share with others that they cannot understand). I like to think that the Predators were not obsessive hunters until AFTER the fall. Why would such an advance, space faring culture not grow out of this obsession with the hunt (unless the Predators we encounter are simply poachers on the fringe of a great society that largely laughs at their childishness)?

It's also tricky to try and reconcile the events in AVP and Prometheus, as they contradict each other (and therefore shouldn't exist in the same "Universe"). In AVP, Weyland Industries was started by a man named Charles Bishop Weyland and is an established company in the early 21st century. In Prometheus, Peter Weyland forms the Weyland Corp around 2012. Ridley Scott made it a point to distance himself from the AVP franchise and was well aware of "Weyland Industries" when he began filming Prometheus. In other words: Prometheus intentionally ignores AVP, to script an alternate quasi-prequel to Alien using an "ancient astronaut" hypothesis at its core. Ironically, Prometheus also failed to deliver a satisfying prequel to Alien.


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 Post subject: Re: AvP and Prometheus
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:27 pm 
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I just assumed prometheus wayland was a distant relative of avp wayland. *shrug*


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 Post subject: Re: AvP and Prometheus
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:51 pm 
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Alternatively to the 'post apocalyptic' view on the predators, you could always look at them as a culture which hit a cultural plateu, considering themselves the very peek of possible civilisation, stopped investing resources in advancement, lost focus and individual families either fell to infighting or turned their attention outwards.
You can see elements of that with the wealth portions of several big human empires (Roman, Renaisance Italy, British Empire, Modern America), when the people at the top sit on advancement because they have the market cornered, and turn their attention to leasure activities and internal politics society stagnates. In humanity you always find new blood from the lower classes always forces its way up and somehow finds a way to proceed, but then we are a fundamentally chaotic species. Predators, in a culture firmly entrenched in honour and ritual, may well have never had that push from the bottom.
The hunting parties we see arn't just rednecks they are also wealthy leaders out for sport, and long defunct sammurai/knightly/warrior class ritually honing their skills.

This also works well with the representation we have of earlier predator tech (such as AVP:Primal Hunt, and AvP 2010) in which the earlier tech is often far more technologically advanced looking, but generally not actually better. It's more advanced because it was cutting edge military tech, not the civilian hunting equipment adapted from it down the line.
Predators are just victorian 'Big White Hunters' looking for a destraction from the politics and squabbling at home, and for a new trophy for a spot of extram social prestiege....

...and that's why I really want to give all my pred's pith helmets, and have them supported by female preds in horribly impractical skirts.


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 Post subject: Re: AvP and Prometheus
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:02 pm 
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Quote:
...and that's why I really want to give all my pred's pith helmets, and have them supported by female preds in horribly impractical skirts.

-Classy. :D

Are monocles and walking canes are in order? Or better yet, bad hair pieces and blunderbuss plasmacannons? "I say dear boy, You are being hunted! Give us a good show, yes?"


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