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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:15 pm 
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So if your reading this now, this is the second edit of this writeup. I had thought that the Voltiger had several poor qualities, and one greatly redeeming one (its drones). It turns out I was wrong. The way I was using Drones was Illegal. [Thanks Pax for the clarification]. So My Suicide attack squad drones wont work.

Ultimately, and unfortunately, this makes the Voltiger a useless vehicle. We only get one per light vehicle slot, but its not even worth taking it then. Lets look why.

Shooting.

The Voltiger gets a 32" str 15 ROF 1 weapon. And its type "Rail". Now RAIL weapons are good in theory, but not very good in practicality. Because of the nature of wargames, troops are allways taking cover behind walls, encapments, or on top of structures. These troops are INEVITABLY in a line paralell to you. The are rarely if EVER In a column.

In addtion Squad Coherency in Warzone in its nature is looser than other war games. My understanding of the Rail rules, is that a rail shot has no width, like a thin string. So I could see rail on occasion hitting 2, POSSIBLY 3 troops. Mostly though you are spending 105 points for ONE shot. A squad of Chasseurs with a rocket launcher is 95 points, has twice the shots and Critical Damage (2). Lets not even mention the Scorpion at 95 points. Point for point, its just not cost effective.

So for taking out Troops we have better choices. What about anti vehicle? Here again, the voltiger falls short. For taking on Vehicles, again. 105 points for ONE shot. ONE SP. Yes Rail has a chance of being Critical Damage (2) on a roll of 1-4, but that 20% may mean ONE extra damage over an entire 6 turn game. Not worth it.

Close Combat

The voltiger has a Close Combat value of STR +6. But since it does not have a STR value, then we are out of luck. I think they mean STR 16, in which case you could have ONE way a Voltiger would be reasonable in combat. But until they fix the listing, who knows? So for now. Close Combat is useless.

Drones.

Oh how I wanted to love this. The concept was GREAT. Someone obviously put a lot of thought into this. My entire original first post was on how to take a squad of drones, fly it up to your enemy, drop your drones offensively and blow them up. However I was using the rules wrong. You cant do what I was doing.

Then how do you use drones? Drones have three offensive capabilities: Shooting, Attaching to vehicles, and dropping mines.

Drone Shooting: Well they cant KILL anything. They can stun some stuff. Not worth the 105 points.

Drone Attaching to vehicles: This is near useless. First you have to roll to hit in shooting to attach. With a WS of 12, only 60% of your drones are going to hit. So your left with two drones attached, and two drone sitting next to the targeted model. So then your two drones attach to the vehicle and you roll on the chart. 50% of the time, its a straight AVV 0 roll. 50% of the time its an AVV roll. 45% of the time its -2 to AV. SO lets average it out mathematically to a -1 AVV hit. On some light vehicles this is going to make a difference, but AVV 15+ vehicles are gonna laugh. SO even though your two drones attached, only ONE may possibly cause a wound.

Are they hard to get off? Heck no. the defensive player just burns a resource and Goodbye attached drone. Since you cant have more than 4 drones out at a time, in a 6 turn game, your gonna MAX get drones out three times, usually twice. So thats 2 SP hits during the game. Not worth 105 points.

Drone Dropping Mines: Useless Offensively. Why? Because a) you can only do it at the START of a drone movement, and b) it costs a resource. This means if I want a Drone to put a mine near a squad... I have to fly out to where that squad is.. and then sit there for a WHOLE TURN. On my NEXT Turn (if the squad is still there, and IF they havent shot my drony ass to pieces) THEN I can drop my mine.

Drone Defense: Yes.. this is the one area that SOME use comes out of the Drones. You can use the drones to set a mine to block off an area of the battlefield. Now at the same time, that blocks YOU off from that battlefied, and that SUCKS for Cybertronic. Because Cybertronic is not a sit back and turtle army. Its an elite assult force which is all about going TO the enemy. Evaseaur and Immortal... take it to the enemy. Armored Chasseurs, Machinators, Atillia, Scorpions.. all about taking the fight TO the enemy. Run and gun.

Conclusion.

There is no reason really EVER to take a 105 point Voltiger over a 95 point scorpion. The 95 point scorpion takes out troops much better than a voltiger with its high rate of fire and its great Close Combat. For vehicle damage, Scorpions can reach Critical Mass. Want to take out a vehicle, pop up behind enemy lines, and Engage the vehicle in the rear. STR 20 4 Wounds. BAM. You just did more damage in 1 turn than a Voltiger can do in an entire game.

To fix the voltiger I would do the following:

Squad: Allow 2 Voltigers per Light Slot.

Shooting:
Put Critical Damage (2) on the rail with the 1-4 of the rail adding it to Critical Damage (3).
*OR*
Have an alternative fire mode with a shorter range (24", and a ROF of 4).

Drones:
For the Drones, Get rid of the chart, and up the AVV modifer / armor modifier to 10. 1 Wound, AVV -10. Yeah, keep em low damage, but make them really a threat.

If no changes are made, there is no reason to ever field a Voltiger. (And thus no reason to ever purchase one from Prodos when they come out.) As I am only one guy, and miss things, If someone can provide a tactical reason here, that the Voltiger performs that some other Cybertronic unit does not perform VASTLY better, I would very much like to hear it.


Last edited by diggitydug on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:29 am, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:00 pm 
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A few gaps here while I read this.

§: You can not make two of the same actions within a turn. So no move, shot, move.

§: Rail weapon has the following perk which is not included in the above mentioning:
Any successful Ranged Attack tests on a roll
of 1-4 with Weapon Type: Rail against Vehicles
inflicts Critical Damage (2).

So you do have a possibility to cause higher dmg vs vehicles using rail weapons.

§: Drone Mines must be deployed before you move in the action you deploy them, as per the quote above.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:07 pm 
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There is a further problem, aside from what Pax mentioned above. The mine only triggers when something "passes" within 4". That reads to me when they move. Otherwise it would read something like 'when there is any model (aside from Drones) within 4"...' I could of course be wrong, but that's my interprestation.

Also, you can't do that with "sneak shot" the way you describe it. You can only use one type of movement action per activation on a model (pg 32 of the PDF rulebook), and you can't repeat it. So in that case, the Voltigeur would be standing where he fired his weapon.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:09 am 
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Kollar, you and Pax are both correct. I have updated my first post appropriately. Thank you for the corrections, I was doing it wrong.

Diggity


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:14 pm 
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Well, actually the Rail gun is ok. So if you could take two, it would be quite decent, especially as they can heal each other. So two of them would provide a long range AVV/Rail firebase, that can heal off wounds of each other, and release drones/mine fields for defense. That would be worth 210 points. But just one? No, not worth it.

EDIT: And I would definitely take two in a heavy game, together with 3 EDD. That's a pretty damn decent parking lot.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:49 pm 
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Str 16, Take 2. That would be the bare mininmum make them usefull. Fix the Close Combat.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:29 pm 
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diggitydug wrote:
Str 16, Take 2. That would be the bare mininmum make them usefull. Fix the Close Combat.


Actually, the more I think about it. The more semi-useful it can be. Due to the mines. You can effectively set up a minefield at one place, and keep almost any squad from moving through. Denying a part of the board to enemy squads. Especially around objectives which needs to be claimed by infantry, as infantry is usually weak against blast damage. While doing this, it can take pot shots at the enemy. It is absolutely crucial that it remains in cover though. Even one turn out of it, and it's toast against any competent player.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:45 pm 
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Just a query - does the blink ability count as movement - if not, the foot troops could use mined areas as a block, then blink through them, to make use of this (either attack or fall back options).

Book not currently available, so can't check if that would work.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:01 pm 
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After reading your comments and looking through the rules for it again, this really does seem like a true blue support piece. As you stated I think it really needs to be 1-2 per selection, but I think in larger games this will be an essential piece of equipment to have for the reasons mentioned:

1) Repair EDD (and any other future vehicles)
2) Board Denial (cannot be overlooked in importance)
3) Mobile vehicle sniper (not the best, but doable)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:15 am 
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As a Mobile vehicle sniper, one shot for 105 points is not much quality. A chasseur squad with a Critical Damage(2) Rocket Launcher is 95 points, and they have ROF 2 weapons on the other 4 guys. I think +1 STR on the rail, and take 2 per slot, and we have a balanced winner.


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